Talk about briad vs mono or flouro?

I'm a huge fan of braid on all things plastic.  It seems I can feel so much more with it.  Is it ok to use it with top waters chatter baits and crank bait set ups?  Spinnerbaits ?  What is the advantage of stretch?  

Greg, I use braid with all of my plastics, too. I use it with buzz baits, spinnerbaits, chatterbaits, and often with deep-diving crankbaits. I seldom use it with lipless crankbaits and never with topwaters - EXCEPT frogs. The advantage of stretch is that you don't break your line as often using stretchy line, like mono. The main reason I use mono for topwater, though, is that it floats. I happen to despise fluorocarbon, so I use braid and mono...but mostly braid. I fish in the middle of some pretty thick stuff.

Originally Posted by Tom Dillon

Greg, I use braid with all of my plastics, too. I use it with buzz baits, spinnerbaits, chatterbaits, and often with deep-diving crankbaits. I seldom use it with lipless crankbaits and never with topwaters - EXCEPT frogs. The advantage of stretch is that you don't break your line as often using stretchy line, like mono. The main reason I use mono for topwater, though, is that it floats. I happen to despise fluorocarbon, so I use braid and mono...but mostly braid. I fish in the middle of some pretty thick stuff.

{Quoted Post} Tom, I'm wondering why you dislike fluorocarbon? I don't like it for topwaters since it sinks, but it's supposed to be tough and virtually invisible to fish. What am I missing? Thx. 

I use 15 to 20 lb Flourocarbon (Invisix) for most applications. I use 12 lb mono (Trilene-Big Game) for topwaters like spooks and poppers.. Flourocarbon for poppers, spooks ect is a no go, as it simply sinks too much, killing the action of those presentations. . The only time I use braid is frog fishing or heavy timber.

I've used them all and must be something wrong with me as they all fish the same. I've read the articles about stretch on mono but I can't feel it stretch. My problem is I just like to fish and not get caught up in the science. I never go out fishing to weigh them, measure them or out fish anyone just to enjoy the day. 

Has anyone ever felt their line stretch when they set that hook.  At that point my brain is about as big as the bass on the other end and the struggle begins.

I'm like Steve:  Seaguar InvizX is the best flouro I have ever fished and use it for all my plastics and cranks.  I use braid for frogs and fish topwaters on a spinning rod with braid.  I think it helps the action and the softer rod has the "give" that keeps topwater fish on the hook.  I've also used Sunline Flouro with good results, but nothing beats the Seaguar InvizX 15 for most plastics and 20 for Jigs.

Seaguar Invizx is my choice for flourocarbon; it is stronger than the equivalent mono and has the same feel as braid, plus its virtually invisible in the water.  I use mono (Trilene Easycast) for topwaters and other lures that i need to cast a long way; it is the most limp mono i have found and truly is "easy cast".

you can't beat braid (as others have said) when frog fishing; it's so strong that you can tie your boat up with it.  i also use it for buzzbaits when i'm fishing in very heavy cover.

In the thick stuff I really like to fish in, I prefer to use heavy line. I normally use 20# mono or 65# braid with baitcasting tackle, 30# braid with 1# mono leaders with my spinning tackle (weightless Senkos, light lures, etc.), and 10# braid with 6" or 8" mono leaders with ultralight and finesse tackle. I prefer to use certain knots, and with fluorocarbon, some of them either slip or weaken the line too much.  I find fluorocarbon to be stiff and often unmanageable in the stronger diameters and lilne strengths. Mostly, it's just personal preference. Isn't it nice to have so many choices in these modern times? I have used 6# and 8# fluoro with my finesse rigs, but saw no advantage to it over mono in terms of number of fish caught. Doesn't mean I'm right, of course - its just what I like to use.

Robert, remember that this was a long time ago...but back in the 70s, I used nothing but blue Stren mono, usually either 17# or 20#. I fished mostly at Medina Lake, which was crystal-clear back then. Throwing topwaters or plastics, long casts were often necessary. Even with teh 5.5- and 6-foot rods we all used back then, it was sometimes difficult to get a good hook set due to line stretch,  subsequently resulting in a lot of lost fish. It was even worse with lighter line.

 

This is a pretty good discussion. Lets hear what more of our members have to say. No right or wrong answers here -  just good "fishin' talk."

I'm big fan of the invisx as well. I will say I've tried some other flourocarbon lines and hated them. Invisx the best by far. I've never tried the abrasx flourocarbon. Anybody ever used it? One huge tip I'll give everyone that uses flourocarbon. If you haven't tried it you need to start using KVD line conditioner. Makes huge difference to me with flourocarbon used it with mono to. Cuts down on backlashes tremendously. Far as braid I like the sufix 832 usually 40 or 50 lb for topwaters and real heavy color. Have found hard to get bites at times in clear water with braid. Noticed braid washes out quickly. I've been using black marker to darken line usally about 5 or 6 ft from the lure. Anyone else do that?

Yes I do the marker trip for sure.  I use power pro 50 and have been really happy with it.  I use 20# p-line for cranks. 

 

I bought a spool of 15# InvisX this morning. I figure that to be fair, I'd give it a try. I didn't like the Seaguar in the red box, no matter what lb test I tried. I'll try this for braid leaders before I spool with it.

 

UPDATE:  I tried the InvisX, and I think I'll stick with monofilament for leaders. For me, it's just SO much easier to tie strong knots quickly with mono.

Since I am fairly new to the game after years and years away from avid fishing - I am trying all the recommended "best practices" now.  In other words, specific lines for specific purposes.  For the majority of the fishing that we encounter on PWF waters, I am finding braid to be extremely versitile.

I will share this experience and see if anyone else has experienced the same.  With my baitcasting outfit and 30lb braid and 15 lb fluoro leader, I have zero problems, however, with my spinning outfit and 15lb braid and 10lb fluoro leader I have had several break-offs.  The break-offs are not at the knots in the fluoro (not at the leader join or at the terminal) - the fluoro is breaking in the middle of the leader.  Broken off twice on fish and once simply making a cast - watching my non-floating lure sail to its watery grave.

I surmize that the difference in durability between the 10lb fluoro and the 15lb fluoro is drastic and that I need to check for nicks and retie my leader often.  Agree?  Or?

BTW, that is Invizx fluoro in both line tests.  Thanks!

 

Ten pound test is super lightweight in my opinion, it's going to break every time.  When you attach well rope (zero stretch) to a lightweight rubber band the rubber band will snap.  I haven't had good luck with leaders unless it's 20# p line attached to 50# power pro braid.

Thanks for all the tips and info, guys. Always more to learn. Then when you think you "know it all" new products and techniques come out. Gotta love this sport and access to premium private waters!

 

 

Great discussion and I'll share my experience for what it's worth.  I fish a pro-am type circuit where they pair a regular Joe up with different professionals and you get to fish different lakes all over he country.  I'm like a sponge when I'm with these guys asking questions about different lures, line types and presentations.  I had trouble wrapping my brain around many of the subtleties of fishing especially that of line diameter and type because after all, the fish seem to be okay with treble hooks dangling off of the bait so who cares about what the lure is tied to, right?  The answer I've realized is "sometimes."  There are some lakes where the water is so stained that you're really only looking for reaction strikes instead of feeding strikes or where the fish have a low "lure IQ" (for lack of a better term) that you could have your crank bait tied to a dock line and they would still bite it.  Those lakes tend to be the minority in my experience.  Here are a few nuggets I've come away with: 1) for reaction bites, lure color and line type matter less  2) the action of the lure (line diameter) matter WAY more than I would have imagined  3) clear lines out fish braid in most situations  4) stretch matters less than many think.

I went through a phase where I fished braid almost exclusively.  In my mind it was cheaper (bear with me).  To fish fluorocarbon required constant maintenance so I had to keep track of which reel had on what pound test and when it was spooled to keep it from getting too old.  With braid you can spool your reel with 20-50 pound Suffix or Power Pro and forget about it.....  Literally.  It will outlast all of us, right?  Getting my butt kicked by the pros was just because they were pros, or so I thought.  But then I had multiple guys during practice (fishing out of the back of my boat) fishing the exact same lure as I was with similar presentations and day after day I was getting smoked from the back of the boat.  The days that stick out the most to me were when we were fishing a narrow grass line and the strike zone was literally a 2 foot section which eliminated other variables like casting distance or accuracy.  That happened enough times that I've realized that on feeding strikes, line type matters.  So then I switched over to fluoro and my fishing partner who fishes with me at our local club tourneys (still using braid at the time) couldn't keep up.  It was the same situation....  There was a row of green grass on Lake Palestine and you had a two foot strike zone to work your crawdad through and you could expect fewer than half of the bites using braid.  Enough experiences like that and I am now a believer that line visibility really matters on certain lakes and out of over 20 pros I've fished with the only times I've seen braid tied directly to a lure are on top water lures, frog fishing, punching rigs or fishing in and around heavy cover.  What does that mean?  Probably not much other than they surely have confidence in getting more bites that way and confidence seems to be that wildcard we all want that's hard to quantify.

Then I went to using 20 pound fluorocarbon on everything and buying in bulk to try and lessen the expense and the same thing happened.  This lesson was harder for me to grasp though.  With a hand on the Bible I can tell you that with all other things being equal, 12 pound fluoro will outfish 20 pound fluoro every day of the week.  Yes, 12 pound line may cast better and have less memory but I just couldn't concede that the fish cared about the difference and that measurable results existed.  A friend of mine told me I "had to" use 8 pound line when we were fishing in Arkansas because the fish wouldn't bite 12 lb line and after three days of him schooling me I had 8 pound line on and guess what?  Yep!  Without going into too much more detail (and my single typing finger is going numb) I can assure you there IS a difference.  

My frustration with resin monofilament comes when I make this perfect cast to my favorite spot from a distance and get a bite as my lure is falling knowing there's no way I can get a decent hook set from that distance.  It's TOO stretchy for me.  Many people still believe resin mono is best for deep water cranking applications and that the stretch is essential for the bass to inhale the lure but after spending a few days on the water with arguably the best crank bait fisherman around (Keith Combs), that's a bunch of hooey.  With bass being primarily sight feeders, if they want to get your crank bait, there's not much that's going to stop them.  However, being a member of multiple bass fishing forums, many seem to think that the exaggerated stretch in a resin monofilament seems to help them hook up better.  In my hands, it works well for top water applications where treble hooks are involved so the fish end up hooking themselves but that's about it.

Another caution comes in using braid that's too weak for the application.  The beauty of braid is its minimal stretch which means you can feel anything and everything (high sensitivity) but it also means it can't stretch when it needs to.  Ask anyone who has lost money to Lupe in Mexico when he snaps 40 lb line with his bare hands.  To use light braid means you have to adjust your drag accordingly or just go bigger.  If it's a reaction strike...  No worries, right?

So what does this mean for us?  It depends!  Tournament fishing is completely different than fishing for trophy bass.  If you have confidence in what you're using, stick with it. If you aren't getting bites where others are, consider a change.  In most of our lakes, 20 pound line is a must because of the hazards that exist.  You can't spend a lifetime of preparation for the one bite from your new personal best only to have your line break.

I realize 99% of this is common knowledge to most of you....  Just sharing my experiences. Tight lines gents.

Jackson

P.S.  Mark D...  I think you're smart to go with a 15 pound leader on your finesse rig.  In my hands, anything lighter than 12 or 15 pounds needs to be retied too often and I use the uni to uni which takes me too long to tie out in the boat when I should be fishing.  That 15 pound leader is more forgiving as you mentioned.  If your lure went sailing I'd bet that line was knicked. 

P.P.S.  Larry M....  I couldn't agree more! ;)

Jackson, your points are 'right on!' I think you've pretty much covered all the bases.

 

 

I think we all concede that you use braid very, very well Tom.  You catch a lot of big fish so you must be holding your mouth just right. ;)

I know a guide on Fork that out catches just about anyone and he uses 20 lb big game almost exclusively.  There's something to having confidence in what you are throwing when the bite gets tough.

All - I know that everyone has their favorite knots, etc. But speaking of fluorocarbon specifically - I initially had some frustration with finding the best knot for me - and that I could tie quickly on the water.  The knot that Gary Klein describes in this youtube vid did the trick for me big time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE3OXADeadw

Just passing along some helpful info.

Jackson - (update) going to the 15lb fluoro leader on my braid certainly made the difference, no breakage since moving up in lb test.

~Mark